good show as always, great to see you. enjoy the rest of your evening off. tonight on ayman, the case to disqualify donald trump. could a constitutional amendment really keep the ex president from holding public office again? plus, racially motivated violent extremism, that's what the justice department is now investigating as he looks for answers in the wake of the jacksonville shooting. the breaking details in just a moment. and a waste of time and money causes republicans to expand attacks on biden and others, all to distract from trump's legal troubles. i'm ayman, let's get started. >> and just 12 hours from, now we may have answers to two major legal questions that are looming over two cases involving the disgraced ex president. the first, whether former white house chief of staff mark meadows, one of donald trump's 18 codefendants in the georgia

election case will successfully have his charges moved to federal court. that said to be the subject of an evidentiary hearing at ten, am eastern tomorrow morning. meadows requested hinges on the so-called federal law removal statute, which allows federal officials charged with crimes to transfer a state case to federal court. only if they can prove that the alleged criminal behavior was carried out as part of their official duties. in order to prove that, many legal experts say meadows will need to take the stand. fulton county district attorney fani willis who is fighting to keep the case within her county has already subpoenaed to witnesses to testify on monday. that is secretary of state brad raffensperger and his chief investigator francis watson. it sets the scene for a dramatic day in court, which politicos kyle cheney has dubbed a, quote many trial. the second key answer that we should have as soon as tomorrow when we could expect to see

donald trump on trial in the federal election case. also at ten, am judge tanya chutkan who is overseeing the doj's election interference case against trump is set to hold a hearing. which she is largely expected to decide a trial date. it follows teams trump's request to postpone the trial until at least april 2026. that is nearly a year and a half after the 2024 election. over concerns that they would need years to wade through the governments 11 million pages of evidence. now, federal prosecutors quickly push back against that outrageous proposal, claiming trump's lawyers were exaggerating the burden. even after we get answers to those two key questions, there are still another major issue that is looming large over trump's campaign. the legality of his bid for the white house. here is where it gets interesting. earlier this, month to conservative legal scholars came forward to argue that donald trump does not actually

need to be convicted in court to be barred from office. they claim trump isn't eligible to be president in the provision of the 14th amendment. it prohibits people who have engaged in an insurrection from holding government office. since, then several other wildly respected figures, they have begun to endorse the idea as. well including friend of this show and constitutional law expert harvard law professor laurence tribe. as well, a retired conservative federal judge, michael luttig. here is michael luttig making the case on this network. >> disqualification provision of section three of the 14th amendment, and therefore the imposition of that qualification for the presidency is stated and perhaps clearest language

possible. and the constitution. it is unmistakably applicable to the former president and his role and activities on january 6th. >> and now one florida lawyer has in fact answered the call to action. tax attorney learn -- using the 14th amendment to challenge the ex presidents ability to run in 2024. of course, we will see how caplan plays out in court after all. it is an untested novel legal theory. the truth, is we need the so-called novel ideas to challenge someone like trump, the first ex president to face not one but two not three but four criminal indictments. frankly, the states of trump's returning to the oval office are far too high to ignore under the circumstances. as david atkins points out in a new piece for washington monthly, a trump victory will

undoubtedly up into a constitutional crisis. if trump, winds finds himself convicted on federal charges, he will surely attempt to pardon himself. but, as atkins writes, it is not at all clear that any president has that right. the presidents could do such a, thing they could commit mass murder in broad daylight and then simply by themselves later that day. now, all that may seem hyperbolic, if we have learned anything from dealing with donald trump over the last four years, it is that we must often prepare for the worst. if we wait for them to play at the, court not case but cases, it's every avenue of it depends on -- the truth is our democracy does. depend on it for u.s. attorney at the university of alabama

law school christina greer as the associate professor of politics of political science at fordham university and author of a black ethics race immigration and the pursuit of the american dream, and former florida congressman david jolly, also an msnbc political analysts. they are all friends of the show. great to have all of the three of you with us tonight. let's start with the big legal developments tomorrow. mark meadows, all eyes will be on that proceeding. what do you think his chances are at getting this case moved to federal court. if it is moved to federal court, could this be a possible preview of not just his defense, but donald trump's? >> so, a lot of interesting questions wrapped up in this proceeding tomorrow. the most frustrating thing may ultimately be at the end of the day we may not know what the answer. is this is an evidentiary hearing. it is possible that the judge could take evidence and then different ruling until he's had the opportunity to considerate

and evaluate the law. when he looks at the issues here, meadows we'll have to prove three things. that he is a public official, not and doubt, that his contract here was within the course of his official duties and that he has a colorable federal defense. that means not a solid meritorious defense. simply one that he can offer that's reasonable. he can likely prevail there to. so, hall eyes tomorrow will be on the evidence that helps to establish that the contact was or was with not within the course of official duties. the problem here is that the lot in the 11th circuit, really nationwide is a very pro-defendants. this proceeding is often used in the case of federal law enforcement officials who are charged by the stage for criminal conduct in connection with executing a warrant or making an arrest. you can see in that scenario why there would be a lean toward protecting defendants

and letting them assert federal defenses. that case law is not a very good fit in the situation with mark meadows. we will get some inkling tomorrow of whether the judges inclined to use the traditional course, or whether he might not look a little bit more lurk at whether mark meadows was executing the role of the presidents chief of staff, or whether he was doing more work that benefited the campaign. that benefited>> joyce, fani willisd up raffensperger and his chief investigator to testify. how has their testimony potentially provided evidence to the argument that this should stay in county or -- sorry, stay on the state level or the county level? >> willis will advance the argument that what meadows was doing was in furtherance of the campaign. the president doesn't play any role in counting the votes in georgia. he certainly has some sort of top level role in ensuring

elections are fair. here mark meadows was trying to get into places where votes are being counted. he was setting up calls with the secretary of state, with investigators trying to change the outcome of the vote counts in georgia. , so willis will argue that this was simply not the work of the white house, of the people, of the presidency. this was advancing the interests of candidate donald trump. >> professor, greer as i mentioned. willis is lining up raffensperger and the chief investigator to counter the argument. how crucial do you think their testimony will be for the judges as they consider whether to move it to federal court or not? >> i i think it's incredibly important. a, it will set precedent, b, ayman, everyone around donald trump either has been in prison, is going to, prison or is trying to stay out of prison. so, think about raffensperger, and folks who are in georgia on the ground. i am hoping that they will have the common sense and the legal

counsel to actually tell the truth from the beginning, and not try to smooth this over in assistance of the former president. we've seen this time in time. and this is why we have 19 individuals who had to fly down to georgia to go in front of a judge. so, i'm confident in the sense on this point forward, those who are in georgia understand the severity of the charges. they understand that fani willis has been building the case methodically. and i am hopeful that they will put country over party in donald trump. actually tell the truth and help us get to the bottom of this. so we can get to the business every building the democracy. >> it's possible that mark meadows might need to testify in order for his request to succeed. , they do you think he will take the stand to what extent will he be persuasive? >> this is all about mark meadows trying to not testify

publicly. joyce and christine at no far better than i. it is clear. i believe having served with mark meadows, it's clear he's cooperating with jack smith. what statements he provided jack smith, we don't know. it's clear he has likely cooperated with honesty and with jack smith. it puts them in a real tough spot in georgia. it may be that he would have to speak publicly in georgia about what he's actually testifying to jack smith. , otherwise his words would contradict each other. so, i think the removal to federal court all along from mark meadows is obviously -- if you can get removed to federal, court it's a more favorable environment. police then the consideration that this was somehow an advancement of his role as chief of staff is now being considered. it also moves out of the burden and the exposure testifying in a georgia case, where he might not want to the former boss to know what he has now said. he would be forced to. otherwise he would contradict what he shared with jack smith. ld contradic >> joyce, david brings up an interesting point. i'm curious, could jack smith

ask fani willis, not necessarily to drop the charges, could there be some kind of arrangement saying, hey, mark meadows is going to be a critical witness for us. we would rather see him not to be involved in your case that could sour him. that could make him not to cooperate as much as we like him to. how does that work, for example, the dynamic between what fani willis wants to prosecute mark meadows for, perhaps what david jolly was suggesting. that jack smith may want mark meadows to be a cooperating witness on the federal side. >> the way this would normally work, if meadows was cooperating with jack smith in the federal case, and the process of negotiating that agreement everyone would have honestly acknowledge that meadows had exposure in georgia, maybe in other places. it would have been an effort to make a global plea agreement. it doesn't particularly -- to cooperate with jack smith.

to still face the risk of going to prison in georgia. he is very capable and represented by a former deputy attorney general as his lawyer. it seems very likely to me that that attorney george to leroy look or would not have let him conclude some sort of an agreement in the federal system that would have precluded some sort of a plea agreement in the state system. which is to stay i shared david's confusion about this. it looks on the one hand like he's cooperating in the federal system. we know meadows is not formally cooperating in the state. whether he is on the verge of negotiating some sort of plea agreement there that would be global for both cases remains to be seen. which makes this entire removal process a little bit cryptic. >> professor greer, tomorrow we have the hearing in d.c. on a possible day for the federal election interference case. how do you think that will pan

out given trump's team has ridiculously proposed on april 2026 trial. could that possibly backfire. >> yeah, i mean, ayman, for those of us who live in new york, we're accustomed to donald trump consistently trying to move the dates of any of his court cases. this is a tactic he's used time and time again. i want to zoom out 30,000 feet. help our listeners and our viewers understand that we are sitting here confused and splitting hairs because the former president has so many varied cases in the federal system and instate systems. he has district attorneys and also federal prosecutors really walking us through the various crimes, i believe it's 91. the former president has allegedly committed. so, the sheer magnitude of corruption of donald trump and the people around him who aided and abetted his behavior for so long, not just during his tenure as president, not just

during his tenure when he left the white house. i think we should really sort of sit with that for a moment and recognize as you said before we started today, the precipice of democracy and democratic freedoms is really tenuous right now. there are so many norms that have been broken. they continue to be broken by donald trump. i think that we have to really understand the moment that we are in. so, tomorrow i don't know what the federal system will be. i don't think they'll put you back to 2026 though. if i had to make a bet on. that >> everything about him is unprecedented in every way. it's challenging our democracy and our rule of mullah more ways than one. panel, please stick around, we have more to discuss in this hour. still to come, breaking developments on the shooting in jacksonville. first, jessica layton is here with other big headlines. >> amen, we will stick on jacksonville right. now the stories we're watching this, our the justice department will investigate the florida shooting and a dollar

general star as a hate crime. the county sheriff's office has now publicly identified the victims, all three victims were black. as you say, more on this coming up. russian officials confirmed the death of wagner mercenary group chief live ghani prigozhin after receiving dna analysis of the bodies from wednesday's plane crash. his death comes about two months after a failed coup attempt in russia. and three u.s. marines were killed when their aircraft crashed on an island of australia's northern coast. it happened during a routine multi nation training exercise. that's according to u.s. marine officials. five other marines were taken to a nearby hospital in serious condition. a total of 23 u.s. marines were on board. i just got late, and more ayman with ayman mohyeldin after this break. break. can't afford essential school supplies. subaru and our retailers are there to help by giving millions of dollars in funding along with school supplies students need. we call it “the subaru love promise”

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garland has announced the justice department investigating the shooting in jacksonville, florida, quote, as a hate crime, and acts of racially motivated violent extremism. three black people were killed inside a dollar general store. 52 year old angela michel car, 19-year-old joseph a.j. maguire, and 29-year-old jere duson galion. here is jacksonville sheriff dike waters earlier. >> something's happening. we are paying very close attention.

we are doing so much. determining what exactly led to this. quite frankly, the diary of a mad man he was just. completely irrational. >> the famous president biden said, we must refuse to live in a country where black countries going to the store, black students going to school live in fear of being gunned down because of the color of their skin. asked tonight whether he would be speaking with governor desantis, president biden responded, quote, i will speak to the people of jacksonville. joining me now, carmen best, a retired seattle police chief, an msnbc law enforcement analyst. mark claxton, a retired new york police department detective and director of the black law enforcement alliance. it's great to have you with us. i hate that it's under these conditions. i certainly appreciate your time and insights tonight. carmen, i would like to start with you. this attack doesn't qualify as a mass shooting. the gun violence archive defines a mass shooting as one

in which four or more people are killed. this happened on the same day that a shooter opened fire near a caribbean festival in boston injuring at least eight people. your thoughts on the rampant gun violence in this country and the hate-filled behind many of them. >> obviously, it saddens me. so many people -- once again, we are moaning the death of innocent people, because of hate based racism and violence that took their lives. so, we have chlorophyll or a shin of gun violence, hate based violence, hate crimes are on the rise. most of the hate crimes are conducted against ethnic based -- race. and the leader of that, against black people. once again we see an incident like this. it's time for us to really have strong gun laws, to help keep

these types of incidents from occurring. >> mark, law enforcement has been transparent and speedy when it comes to releasing the details of the shooting. it seems unusual to learn so much so quickly. is this significant to you as well, the speed at which they are moving and identifying a motive? >> that's always significant, the right in which law enforcement acts and releases information. i think this is one of the situations where everything is front-facing. for the most part. we might not have all the specific details, behind this act, we have a lot of information that is completely front-facing. because the terrorists who engaged in this form of murder left a lot of bread crumbs, if you will, evidence and police lingual. a lot for investigators to kind of track down and piece together. even in spite of the fact that

there is no clear definition by some organizations, including the fbi about the specific quanta fire of what a mass shooting is, it's a continuation of what the department of justice warned us about a few years ago. that is this trend towards domestic violent extremist race-based domestic violent extremism, we have to anticipate and expect for there to be a continuation. >> carmen, we learned today from jacksonville's air dike waters that the shooter was incredibly able to purchase weapons legally. there was no flag that could've prevented him from purchasing those guns. this now and a country that has surpassed 400 mass shootings this year alone. >> yes, it's absolutely appalling in many ways that a person 21 years old can easily go in and purchase and assault rifle and a handgun.

we really need to make sure, like i said earlier, that our elected officials really push for common sense gun responsibility. in which we can make sure that the young people that are trying to purchase weapons, there is a lot more criteria around how that is done. you talked about how quickly and how much information went out. there are so many of these mass shootings. and investigating these things. they are occurring more than daily. >> mark, i want to play for you a clip from msnbc political analyst eddie glug junior on the show last night responding to the jacksonville shooting. take a listen. >> i was thinking about the formulation of the apparatus of hate. and i'm thinking about the adjacent rhetoric of hate. what turned up the temperature? what brought this to the boiling point? we are in an environment now where there is an expectation

of grievance and hate for political gain. so, we need to understand the y and who is responsible for this. >> the wide reach of who is responsible for this apparatus of hate that is at play here. how do you see, it mark? that is at p>> what i see is ann the prevalence of stochastic terrorism. using media, mask media and other communication forms to more or less insight and provoke incidents of violence. and this, case domestic violent extremism. based on ideological differences and distinctions between people. i think that there are individuals, i include the former president in this list of individuals, and the current governor of florida for engaging in this type of stochastic terrorist activity. that will continue until such time that the federal

government, i, guess will step in and began to more closely monitor and enforce these types of civil rights violations on the lower end. and outright terrorism that is plaguing many communities. we also have to be respectfully mindful that there are organizations out there who are playing close attention to what's going on. they try to warn us. be mindful, -- there are travel advisories for florida where they cited the open hostility towards african americans and other people of color and the lgbtq community as one of their concerns. warning people about the current climate in florida. so, we have to remain vigilant. >> carmen, really quickly, do we need to have tougher domestic terrorism laws? is this white domestic terrorism that is at play here? >> i think all legislation would help. paying close attention to what the underlying causes are. the accessibility of guns.

you know, the rhetoric that we are hearing and seeing across social media sites. it needs to be regulated as well. it's contributing to these mass shootings and the racism that we are seeing all across the country. >> all right, carmen best, mark marq claxton, i'm sorry we had this conversation, it's important we must have of this terrorism that we're seeing. thank you to the bubble, you greatly appreciate it, marq claxton, carmen best. ahead, a key witness and trump's classified documents case just changed his story after he dropped his lawyer. that was paid for by none other than trump's pack. than trump's pack. permission to dig in? granted. breyers carbsmart is so rich, so creamy, it tastes totally off-limits. but with only 4 grams of net carbs in every delicious serving, you've got the green light. better starts with breyers. (josh allen) is this your plan to watch the game today? (hero fan) i have to watch my neighbors' nfl sunday ticket. you've got the green light. (josh allen) it's not your best plan. but you know what is? myplan from verizon.

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codefendants. according to a new court filing, ucl tavares, the director of information technology at mar-a-lago changed his testimony last month. efforts to delete security camera video at the club immediately after he changed from a lawyer paid for by trump's say america pack, to a public defender. now, until that swished -- represented by the same attorney as trump codefendant walt nauta. back with me, joyce vance, christina greer and david jolly. david, do you expect more trump allies to flip like tavares did? >> absolutely, these have to reconcile their personal freedom and a legal jeopardy they face. they are going to realize particularly for some of these that there is an opportunity to stay out of jail, if they will testify truthfully to the prosecutors. so, no surprise here. when he leaves a trump paid attorney, he actually tells a story that implicates donald trump. look, i think christine that made a reference earlier to all the legal actions facing the

president. all four of these. the real telling thing this week is that even as defendants flip and began to say, no, donald trump really did these things, you have a republican class of presidential candidates who all raise their hands and said, i'm still going to vote for that guy. i still support him even if he's a criminal defendant in this race. >> yeah, a low moment in gop politics. christina, what is your take? >> yeah, i mean he's absolutely correct. absolutely no surprise that when he moves away from having a lawyer that the trump administration or trump packs of the american people have been paying, for he decides he wants to change his story. possibly tell the truth. i think you have to look at who has been around donald trump. everybody around the former president ultimately spends a little time in jail. so, if he's thinking about talking to legitimate lawyers who might think, you lied already. we are at the point where maybe we can correct the course to a certain extent and possibly

telling the truth. i think a lot of people now realize they get caught up in the frenzy of trying to give the president what he wanted at the time even if it mans breaking the law and i think a lot of people are realizing that what they did was wrong. there might be some consequences. they might have to pay for it with some jail time or prison time depending on what their crimes are. i think a lot of people recognize that donald trump has been the one that's been able to evade any sort of repercussions his entire life. maybe some people are starting to wake up and realize that they are the only ones who will be left holding the bag. so, it might be time to come clean sooner rather than later. >> joyce, can you explain to a layperson like me the legal dispute at the center of tavares's decision to flip. why would he flip now that he has a public defender what might have incentivized him to flip simply by changing lawyers? >> right, so, to christine's point, it's this realization of what the best serves his own interests. david and christina are absolutely correct.

it's not remarkable to see someone do this after they've changed from a lawyer who has been brickyard for them by a codefendant. and have begun to seek the advice of counsel who is objective. the question is, how do you get them to that point. what happened in d.c. was the judge looked at the situation involving the lawyer who is representing both ucl tavares and one of trump's other codefendants, walt nauta. he said this is 60 uncomfortable, we need to make sure that this defendant has access to objective counsel. so, the judge sent the potential defendant, now a witness, to talk with council. once counsel explain the situation, this individual chose to be a witness, not a defendant. that comes into focus down in mar-a-lago. the government has now asked the judge down there, aileen cannon, to use this same process for a trump's to codefendants.

both nadia and diallo various, that proceeding will take place in the course of the next week, the judge will decide whether or not she will use a similar process down in florida. >> christina, my question here that is when will trump's allies learned their lesson. as you, said there is a lifelong pattern here. you can go back years. perhaps most notably, somebody like michael cohen, who actually served time in prison and came out and testified before congress about learning his lesson. yet, for people like not, a oliviera, dale levy area and tavares and perhaps others in georgia, they are not learning their lesson. >> when they have their moment, sometimes it's too late. they are in that criminal legal system. they have to recognize that donald trump is out for only one person. that is only donald trump.

what's embarrassing about the republican candidate, unlike the people who've been in the trump orbit, they are so afraid of the primary voter. it essentially in the cult of donald trump. they're feckless behavior, raising their hands, pledging loyalty to a man who you know could face a serious charges and possible prison time, they are so afraid of him and his supporters, they don't just say, well, you know, at whatever he, does we are fine with him as the nominee. as a state of the party, if i were a republican, i would be embarrassed to the utmost. slowly but surely, people come around after the fact. for those of us who live in, new york we know that donald trump ran the enterprise, many would argue similarly to a mob boss. he never had a board of trustees. he never answer to anyone. everyone calls him boss. he sort of runs around as people are walking on eggshells. they are absolutely afraid of him and his wrath. so, you get caught up in that

frenzy until you're sitting in the room with your lawyer looking at prison time and recognizing that the person who put you there might have a bag at all. >> how do you explain? at the people that work for, i'm not just people who work for, him the politicians who fear him on that debate stage. >> look, can any power dynamic, when the boss, particularly president of the united states, ask you to do something, there will be some people who go along with it until they face the reality of losing their freedom and then they reconsider. i think, politically the interesting thing is that you have had republican leaders, 98, 99% of republicans that have cowherd under donald trump's power over the party. his grab of the party. politically, aim, and i think the most amazing thing that we saw in this race, if he's a criminal conduct, the remarkable thing is how does the candidates say that but then turn around to the voter in, say but you should vote for me instead. the opportunity, the time to make the case against donald trump politically is when you are asked in that moment, do you support him if he's a

criminal? you say, no. let me be the vessel for armada. they didn't do. that >> absolutely does not make any sense politically and on principle that they would still defend. david jolly, thank you so much, christine enjoys, please stick around i want to discuss the growing campaign to discuss from donald trump's real troubles next. troubles next.

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to be clear, there is no evidence of coordination. he is asking willis to submit all documents related to the offices use of federal funds and all communications with doj and executive branch officials regarding her investigation due by september 7th. of course, you may recall jordan issued a similar demand of new york the elvin brag after trump was charged in the hush money probe. of, course not to be out done, house speaker kevin mccarthy now warning that republicans could move forward with an impeachment inquiry into president biden if they don't receive documents they are now demanding from biden family members. that includes bank statements and credit card statements. just this morning, he called it a, quote, a natural step forward. this is, of course, again, all part of the house gop's long running up session to prove president biden benefited from his son hunter's foreign businesses by taking a bribe from a ukrainian energy company. , again there's no evidence of that.

in fact, white house republicans have found what they have found contradicts their own theories. as philippe bump writes in the washington post, any freshman year philosophy student can identify the flaw here. joe biden could turn over years of bank records, submitting them to endless scrutiny. mccarthy and his allies could simply insist that a something was still missing. and there you have it, republican counter programming one-on-one. at the end of the, day the ex president is still facing 91 charges across four criminal cases and jurisdictions. no amount of political stunts by jim jordan or kevin mccarthy or anyone else is going to change that. joyce vance and christina greer are back with me. joyce, legally, what is jim jordan hoping to find here? what obligations does fani willis have to send it over. last i checked, there is nothing wrong with her talking to smith, who is investigating the same crime. the attempt to overturn an election. attempt to overturn an

>> right, you're 100 percent correct about that. there is nothing wrong with federal and state prosecutors coordinating. it happens all the time every day in this country. jim jordan knows that. he knows that fani willis will not comply with his demands, because they are improper, just like the ones made to alvin bragg and manhattan or. so, our only possible takeaway here is that jordan is not engaging in some form of legitimate congressional oversight. this is just political posturing at its worst. he's hoping he can cast aspersions, he can convince people who are poorly informed that something inappropriate happened. it's really a desperate last gasp of trying to delegitimized body well as his prosecutions. >> christina, i want to turn now to this morning an impeachment inquiry from speaker mccarthy. philip bump in the washington post put it like this. if an impeachment inquiry were to move forward, one might hope that it would be conducted with an eye toward fairness, objective, étienne

impartiality. all of which mccarthy demanded of nancy pelosi in 2019. we know that is not going to happen. >> absolutely not, as joyce just laid out, we are not dealing with a party that is in the rational mind. so, this is the party that even before joe biden was elected as president of the united states, they said they're going to impeach him. the questions were, well, for what, don't worry about. it we will figured out later. we are definitely going to impeach him. these are plans that they had well before he even took office. i do want to circle back, eamonn, to something joyce said. we need to -- recognize that part of his residents to delegitimized fani willis is all so the fact that she is african american, as is all brag, tish james, all he has to do is go back to his trump supporters and, say look, these very educated highfalutin african americans are clearly trying to attack our president. and that's all his supporters need to hear. this is the same reason why donald trump wanted to move one

of his trials from d.c. to west virginia, he wanted a more diverse jury pool, meaning he wanted to move it from a territory that has 45% african americans, to a place in west virginia where there are three or 4% upon americans. this goes back to a larger races racist ideology that donald trump is. had not just as president, but well before he was elected. >> christina, this is something we've seen him do with hillary clinton time and time again. of course, everyone here remembers benghazi, benghazi, benghazi, kevin mccarthy spelled it out. he said clear as day. look what we did with her poll numbers after we created these select committee on benghazi. that's what it seems like they're trying to do with this hunter biden probe and try to connect it to the president. we know that most americans do not connect to hunter biden's legal issues with president biden. >> absolutely not, like you ayman, this is the same thing they did with broke a bummer ticket. as you, said it will never be enough. much that joe biden can show

every single receipt from 1972 to the president, it would never be enough. so if you keep that in mind, we recognize you're not dealing with an effort with the republican party. >> i was going to say, never play into their hands. christina greer, joyce vance, thank you so much of your time tonight. greatly appreciate it and your insights as always. up next, a pride flag and argument gunfire. the senseless killing of laura and carleton. and carlonet liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of the pile! oh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ (josh allen) is this your plan to watch the game today? (hero fan)for what you need. i have to watch my neighbors' nfl sunday ticket. (josh allen) it's not your best plan. but you know what is? myplan from verizon. (vo) football season is here. get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. (vo) ninety-two percent of students in high-needs schools can't afford essential school supplies.

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flag was ripped down from laura and carleton storefront, she put up and even bigger. one in the 66-year-old had to buy quite a few replacements in the two year she operated her clothing boutique. the cost never bothered her, nor did the occasional harsh work for her conservative neighbors and cedar glen, california. the small politically purple town in the san bernardino mountains. no words of one of her daughters, she was fearless, a fierce ally of the lgbtq community. laura, lori, to lug, ones was killed last friday, she was fatally shot by a man who first spewed a host of disparaging remarks about the rainbow flag that stood outside the store,

according to the county sheriff's department. the gunman who we will not name, was later killed in a conversation with law enforcement. lori by all accounts was beloved by her community. earlier this year, after a massive blizzard struck cedar glen, lori and her husband converted their shop into a relief center and provided free food for those in need for months. the only person directly responsible for lori's death is, of course, the killer. you cannot tie his actions to the homophobic rhetoric of the conservatives like donald trump, desantis, our far-right pundits who for years now have looked to, quote, make the pride flag toxic. when you ban sanjay in schools and demonizing trans kids and pink queer people as glimmers, you end up with hate. hate can lead to action. it can lead to more tragedies like lorries. there has been a surge in anti lgbtq demonstrations and attacks and recently airs.

they have quadrupled by some measurements. according to report from glaad and the anti-defamation league, there have been more than 350 lgbtq hate incidents in just the last year. of course, bigotry comes in many forms. different kinds of bigotry just led to the deaths of three people, three black people, in jacksonville florida. we cannot cower or high from this hate. the bigots win if we do that. so, we must keep the memories of people like laura and carleton close to us. the people who died in florida, close as well. and then we must stand up to that hate loud and clear. whenever possible, we must put up a bigger flag. we will be right back. we will be right back. tourists that turn into scientists. tourists photographing thousands of miles of remote coral reefs. that can be analyzed by ai in real time. ♪ so researchers can identify which areas are at risk.

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go anywhere. coming up right now, msnbc films presents a young, that the latest installment of the documentary series to the turning point. the film follows the young women on afghanistan's national soccer team who fled taliban control after they withdrew from the country in 2020. one watch ayenda next at tempe am eastern on msnbc, it's also streaming right now on peacock. thank you for making time for,

us make sure you catch ayman an msnbc saturdays at eight, sundays at nine. make sure to follow us on twitter, tiktok, instagram, all at eamonn msnbc. until we meet again, i'm ayman martin live in new york. have a good night. d night. piano music) (gear clicks) (tense music) (gun fires) (siren blares)